I visited an alternative healer

Here’s another very personal episode. If you’re looking for sales, startup, and business advice, skip this episode, it’s not going to be a good use of your time. If you want to get to know me better as a human being, particularly some of my private struggles and the inner work I do, then maybe this is for you. However, be aware that it’s another raw recording: an unstructured, meandering conversation without a clear ending or an actionable takeaway.

I talk about my challenges with happines, visiting an alternative healer, never feeling at home anywhere, and many other things I’d usually not share publicly.

So why am I sharing it now?

For one, look at the name of the podcast. What you hear in this recording is inner work in progress—and that’s not always pretty.

And secondly, it’s easier to share this now with you because this was recorded in the last week of July—and a lot has happened since. I do feel happy. I have a vision for a place that I’ll make my home where I truly feel at home. I’m much more in touch with my own feelings.

And finally, after I published Episode 31: Listening to myself: A bad day many of you told me that sharing my inner struggles helped you.


Hey, everybody. Welcome to today’s episode, which is one of the last ones published this year. This is an awkward one and uncomfortable one. Um, it deeply personal and private between me and a friend. Rameen, who’s also my collaborator on this podcast and it’s a conversation that happened half a year ago.

[00:00:22] It was a call we had, where I talked about having a shitty morning feeling depressed, depleted about my realization that I was afraid of happiness because of the threat. It could be for my relationship with my ex-wife. We talked about me based on a recommendation of a friend, going to a energy worker alternative.

[00:00:48] You know, healer woman and having her tell me things about my life, my mother’s life, my grandfather and grand grandfather’s life and picking up on all kinds of spirits and energies and, uh, Y experienced that conversation, that session, what was good, what was bad and what I walked away from it. And. At the end of the conversation, you can sense the kind of love and tenderness and the closeness that Romina and I share and real listening to this conversation.

[00:01:21] That’s half a year ago. I almost don’t recognize myself, um, just recently, but I think back then half a year ago, I wasn’t happy. And I didn’t know if I would dare to be happy. And just a couple of days ago, I was telling Rameen on another recording that we’ll publish hopefully soon. How happy I am right now and how the thought I love my life right now, blurred out of me in voluntarily the other day, a lot has happened in those six months from feeling at home and feeling connectedness at all times versus feeling lonely and never kind of feeling like I could arrive anywhere, feeling happy versus.

[00:02:07] Being concerned that I might not even dare to be happy to some of the confusions that I had about feeling my feelings and exhaustions I had today, the pleasure and the wisdom and the life energy that I gained from being a bit more in touch with my feelings. This is a deeply personal episode. I’m wondering around a meandering around.

[00:02:29] This is not a keynote speech. This is not super precise thought. It’s a. Conversation, roar, unedited, uncut with a good friend in a, in a very volatile moment, sharing openly searching, brainstorming it’s bits and pieces. And I said, I really listened to it just moments ago. And you know, both, I don’t recognize myself almost then I was really ashamed.

[00:02:56] My English is terrible. I’m meandering around. I’m not really concise in my thought. I sound foolish at times. So it was like, ah, my ego was really hurt about all of this. I’m like, do I really want to share this with the world? But this podcast is about being authentic, experimenting, daring, taking risks, sharing things that are not quite polished, not quite ready.

[00:03:22] And I’ve been surprised the last couple of months. How many of you have reached out to me and said that. One or the other episode has really touched you or influence you in a positive way. I’m amazed about that. To be honest, I’ve never been as I’m polished, as I’ve been on this podcast, it’s all over the place.

[00:03:39] I’m all over the place on it. And that’s kind of the place for it. That’s the purpose that it serves. And so if you love me, uh, which you might be really interested in this. If you’re, you know, barely interested in me, this just might be one of those episodes that if at any point while you’re listening, you feel like skipping it.

[00:03:58] I won’t blame you. I’m not going to hold it against you. So you’ve been warned. This is, uh, an old episode, but an important one for me, a personal one and one that will frame some of the episodes that will be published in the next couple of weeks. Where there’s going to be lots of catching up and you’ll see the stark difference between my energy and my way of thinking and the way I live my life right now.

[00:04:21] And just what was happening to me and with me just six months ago. So yeah. Hope you enjoy this episode. At least you find it interesting or curious without further ado, let’s jump right into the conversation.

[00:04:35] Nope. All right. We are recording. All right. So Thursday was a super intense day for me. Um, it started by waking up way earlier than I typically do so these days right now, I am not, um, I don’t wake up by an alarm. I just wake up. When am I do? But typically I wake up at around 7:00 AM. And it’s not always great because I feel like my mind wakes up, but my body’s still tired, but it’s usually is the type of thing where I’m like awake and like 10 minutes of tossing and turning.

[00:05:19] And then it’s just like, I’m just like, Oh, whatever, it doesn’t matter. If my body’s still tired, like I’m just, I’m awake now. Right. My mind is awake. Let let’s just go. Um,

[00:05:32] Um, but, but on Thursday I woke up at six. I went to bed later than I usually do. I went to bed at like midnight past midnight, and I woke up at six. And so when I woke up already felt a little out of it. Um, and then I, at some point I sat down and I, and I started doing a little bit of journaling and I wrote down.

[00:05:59] Just like some questions around how like, Oh, this was it. Instead of just asking, how do you feel? I asked myself, how do you feel about, and then I was like, how do you feel about Diana? How do you feel about your work? How do you feel about, you know, all these people or things that are. Important in my life.

[00:06:21] I just wrote down all the things that came to my mind. And then I just wrote like, basically a sentence or something, or a couple of words that came to mind. And one thing there was sort of, no one thing I already knew, but the really the full realization of it still shocked me to some degree was that I thought about Diana, my ex-wife and.

[00:06:47] You know, I, I realized how much tension I still have around her, like in our relationship or the way of like such a good relationship. Now we’re friends and we have been very kind to each other over the last couple of months. There’s still a, an uneasiness that I feel. And then, then I thought. Then it kind of just moved on.

[00:07:16] Um, and then eventually I asked myself, Can I even imagine being fully happy right now. Like, could I imagine like imagining in a couple of months telling you, for instance, dude, I’m so happy with my life right now. I love everything about my life right now. Like, so can I even imagine that I thought about what kind of life I would have to have?

[00:07:37] You have to be able to tell my friends who tell people in myself that I’m completely happy and then Diana popped up again. As an image. And I realized I would be afraid to be completely happy because I would be afraid what it would do my relationship with her because I had this image or this fear inside of me that if I live completely happy, she’s going to be angry at me.

[00:08:02] And it’s going to cause conflict between us. I’m going to hear blame. I’m going to hear like, I’m struggling with all this you’re over there having the best life of your, you know, the best time of your life. Like I imagined that there would be anger, conflict issues, which relates back to, I think, early in our marriage when we had the first child, you know, and eventually try to.

[00:08:30] Figure out my own life to be more helpful to her. When I shared like some good moments, she did get angry at me. Right. It was sort of a see you live an amazing life. And here I am suffering on my own or suffering with my challenges, but nobody’s helping me while you’re getting all this great things in your life.

[00:08:50] And that led to me, never like me less and less than eventually never sharing any of my joy with her. I’ve been kind of uncomfortable or afraid sharing with her when something good would happen to me. Right. So would like minimize the good in front of her and I would maximize the bad and I realized that that’s still inside of me.

[00:09:15] Right. That kind of a fear or that image in that, because. I’m afraid of being so happy because I’m afraid of what it would do. Like what kind of conflict it would create between the two of us. I cannot also be happy one of my children. Right. And then that was like a wow. Like I it’s, I didn’t fully internalize that.

[00:09:42] I would be afraid to be insanely happy tomorrow. And it would have hesitations about that because I would, because I’m afraid of what kind of an issue that would create with my family basically. And so that stayed with me for a little bit. And then eventually, um, I started listening to some music and I had, again, this like sensation of inter, like I could feel this sort of light pain in my chest, like, or hurt.

[00:10:15] And I really wanted to go to the gym. Like my day was pretty packed and I was like, if I don’t go to, I haven’t gone. This is the first week in, uh, in, in a long time where I didn’t go to the gym for three days in a row where I was supposed to go. A variety of reasons. Right? I did a trip to Zuri. I didn’t train on Friday when I drove, drove there.

[00:10:40] And then when I came back on Monday, I didn’t train. And then on Tuesday I didn’t train. So it was like, I have it’s Thursday. I have to go to trading today. Um, but then also felt this weird hurt and then, and also felt kind of all day long on Thursday, I felt sort of like just weak and weird. It’s almost like having, um, uh, I don’t even know how to say it in English.

[00:11:11] Like a caseload probably. May I dunno. What is that?

[00:11:18] Um, Cycle. Okay. That’s

[00:11:26] right.

[00:11:30] System problems. What? No, sorry. Problems. Yeah. I don’t know. I just didn’t feel good. Right. Um, and so there, there was this internal dialogue of like, just skip training. You feel so weak and weird and it would be like, um, um, Heavy squad training. And I’m like, I don’t want to feel weak and we’re going to do that, that type of training.

[00:11:55] And then I had this thought an idea of like, what if you carry the pain with you and you try to mindfully train with a pain. Right? Don’t usually I put on headphones and I’ll listen to sort of like pump up music. I’m like, what if there’s like no music today? Right. And I don’t try to push it away and then do a hard workout.

[00:12:21] I just try to carry the pay with me and see what happens. Can I fold my pain mindfully and work out? And if it’s too much, I will give myself the permission to stop at any time. And so I went to training and it’s just like, in general, to me, it’s, it’s funny. I’ve done this now. Like. You know, two or three times where I kind of felt that inner hurt and I didn’t push it away quickly.

[00:12:46] And it just like carried it with me for a little bit and was breathing into it. And I was able to do that, but it definitely put me in an altered state. Like I was not in a normal awake state of mind. It’s just not weird, almost like I’m under the influence of some substances. Like, I don’t know, like a little bit drunk or something.

[00:13:10] Like my vision was a bit more blurry. Just reality felt a little, a little weird. Like I was just fully there and. I started, uh, and I was doing pretty good with like, keeping, like, breathing into the, her, keeping it and not doing anything, not like being like, I’m stronger than this. I’m going to defeat it.

[00:13:31] I’m going to push it away. Why I’m weak because of it. I was just like, it’s just there. Like I can just hold it and still be myself and see how things feel. It’s I’ve started my first set of like 10 squats and the, the, the whole workout would be. 10 times 10 squats with like, um, a way that squats, right.

[00:13:55] And the first set felt like the eighth set normally, like I struggled so hard on my first set that I was like, Holy shit. Not sure I can do 10 of these. I’m going to get to the end of this, but okay. Keep breathing in, keep breathing in. So I did about, I think I did six sets. And then it started feeling a way where I was like, this is it.

[00:14:25] I should probably call it a day. I should not finish my workout today. I don’t feel well. And that in and of itself was such a big challenge to me because I’m like, it’s much harder. It’s it feels much better to me to push through my suffering and conquer it then to accept it. Right. But I was like, well, maybe because this is harder, this is maybe the challenge that I need to work on.

[00:14:54] This is the area I can grow in. Maybe I just need to give myself permission to quit a workout if it’s not the right day to day. I don’t know. Okay. So I come back and I shower and I quickly try to eat something, but I just had no appetite and then have a cold was soften and Alex and. We get on the call and dude, within the first minute.

[00:15:19] I feel so overwhelmed. And I can just tell, like, I can’t deal with it. Like I can not deal with life right now. Like I’m just, it’s such a weird state. I can’t be in conversations with people like this is it’s too overwhelming. It’s too much for me right now. And I tell them, I’m like, guys, I’m in a super weird state of like, I don’t know, I’m feeling super weird.

[00:15:43] We chit chat, whatever, whatever. And. Now, this is an important little detail a month earlier. So if it had told me about this, this woman that is sort of a healer, that does sort of very, so do you say esoteric? No. In English. Yeah, so very esoteric stuff. I don’t even, I don’t remember it anymore. It was like Chinese energy, tapping, whatever.

[00:16:16] What’s something along like something kind of a little out there for me. And he told me how she, he had gone to her when, in his twenties and had like a really good experience. And she kind of released some energies that he had inside of selfhood. He felt much better afterwards. And he had sent his girlfriend to her and she’s had a very good, expensive, he was like, you know what?

[00:16:36] I feel like my intuition tells me you should go to her as well. Right. And I said, I I’m like, I am at a point where I’m like, I’m open. My business is open for all business. I’m like open to anything and everything, because there’s so much going on with my inner world right now. And I’m tackling so many.

[00:16:56] Internal demons and topics. I’m like, I’m, I’m trying, I’m going to do anything. I’m open to try any. And the more it feels like not what I usually would do them better is probably is right. If you kind of step outside my zone of competence and confidence and comfortability and just try some crazy shit and see what happens.

[00:17:14] So I’m like, all right, give me her number. So I wrote to her, and so I had a, an appointment with her on Thursday. Right, which is also funny. It’s like, w w w did I have such a weird day before meeting her? Because I was meeting her that day. Who knows? Right? Or was it just a coincidence? Who knows? But I left early for my call with Alex and Sophia because I wanted to drive to her and I had never driven there.

[00:17:37] It was like supposed to be 25 minutes away. I’m like, ah, there’s probably heavy traffic at this time. I’m trying to implant in 40 minutes to get to her. So I started driving to her. And do traffic is like out of control just out of, I don’t know. And then Google, uh, maps is trying to navigate me around the traffic, but probably never gets everybody around it.

[00:18:01] So I’m in this situation where I’m like in heavy traffic and, and, you know, there’s like maybe 10 meters for me to take the next left, but it takes me like, 20 minutes to get there. And then it gives me a left and then I have to spend 15 minutes there. And then it’s like, it routes me this, this route that is like super stressful because every couple of minutes I have to take another small side road and then another, but there’s traffic everywhere and people are losing their minds.

[00:18:30] People are clogging the streets. They’re finally, it’s just super stress environment. And I’m like, Why why today, when I feel like this, I have to go through this kind of an experience to get to her. Right? So I’m back in this, like I’m now I’m in this narrative where I’m like, this is so interesting. Why this isn’t flowing easily today.

[00:18:51] Nothing is flowing easily for me. And so I write to her and I’m like, listen, bro, going to be like half an hour late. And she’s like, yeah, well, you know, it’s fine. And then I, then 30 minutes later, I’m like, I progressed five meters. Like I’m going to be another half an hour later. And she’s like, well, you know, if it is that way, it is that way.

[00:19:13] Like we can change it. Just come when you’re here. I’m like, okay. So, all right. And go to this lady and a funny side note between you and I, because we both know Sophia and Sophia told me the first time he met her, her first comment was we need to work on your smile. Right. And he was like, Whoa, like, he’s like that, it’d be really cool.

[00:19:36] Like I going there like hello? And she’s like, yeah, we need to work on your smile. And it’s like, Oh my God. And so I go in there and like, I’m curious what her first comment is going to be. So I walk in there and she’s like, you are a true in English. Like you are a very kind person. I was like, ah, All right, I’ll take that.

[00:19:59] So we sit down and we teach that a little bit and I can immediately tell you a couple of things. I know I like her, right. It’s like, um, mid to end forties. She’s like a woman that has seen some things. Um, she seems like a no bullshit person, right? Not seeming to care, to be like impressed or create a certain kind of vibe at all.

[00:20:26] Seems pretty authentic and seems to be wise and to have like a good, very good energy. So I’m like, all right, I already like her. So I’m in like, whatever you want, whatever voodoo you want to do with me, I’ll go along. I’ll believe everything. Let’s just fucking let’s rock and roll. Like I’m here to work.

[00:20:49] And so she asked me a bunch of questions and I’m, you know, I already come with. With stuff. I’m not, I’m not sitting there and I’m like, Oh, you know, I don’t know. I feel a little weird. I want somebody to figure out what’s going on with me. I come down, I’m like, this is what’s going on with me. Like, here’s the emotional challenges that I have.

[00:21:08] Here’s the realizations I’ve had. He is the physical effect, the mental effect. Here’s how I’m trying to work through this, but I obviously need more help. Like I’m not making enough progress. I’m open to more, like, I need to figure out what’s going on or how to transform this. And she asked me a bunch of questions and all that is, is cool.

[00:21:26] And then I’m first the experience and how I, how I see it. And then I’ll give you some detailed moments. I’ll unpack that in terms of what was meaningful to me or not overall. Yeah. This was such a, and this is a good, I think this is in general, such a good model and I’m not always. Often not capable of using this model of thinking and living, but in this case I was during that, like we, we spent one and a half hours together do the one and a half hour session.

[00:22:01] There were a bunch of things she said and did that were very impressive. Right. We’re really, it felt very spot on and very powerful. Then there were a bunch of things that she said and did that felt like total. Like, like nothing like wrong or total BS. So I feel like it was more, it could have been my bias that would have determined.

[00:22:26] I could have walked out there and be like, Oh my God, this is, this lady is a, which she can see the future and the past, she felt all the energy. She’s amazing. This is incredible. This is impressive. Why could walk out there and be like, this was all bullshit. She goes through a million things up in the air and you know, lots of them were wrong.

[00:22:43] So all of it was wrong where I was with somewhere in the middle, where I was like, listen, some of like, I, I’m not going to come out and be like, I believe in all her techniques, even understand what she was doing, but I don’t care. This seems like a useful session. It was good for me. I enjoyed her and being around with her, I enjoyed talking to her and she said some powerful stuff and I’ll take it with me.

[00:23:08] And who knows, maybe it’ll take me three years to realize that some of the things that felt wrong, I to rate or maybe, you know, who knows, I don’t know, but it felt helpful. Like it was, it didn’t, it felt good to me. It was good. And she did some crazy shit that brought up some that allowed me to talk to her about some things that I already knew, but in another way, and that felt good.

[00:23:31] That that’s, that was a positive experience for me. So that’s how I felt about the whole thing. I’m like, I, this was a positive experience. I liked it. I cannot tell if someone, I was like, does it work? Was it really the Chinese energy? She did. I don’t know. I don’t know, but we’ll see that session seemed meaningful or actually felt meaningful to me.

[00:23:56] That’s all that matters at the end of the day, for me, at least in this case. So she did some cool. Some cool stuff where, um, she, then there’s another interesting thing. So you basically, you know, this, I don’t know what it’s called, but th this technique is like used in so many different areas, alternative areas of medicine, where you, you put your arm up and then they tell you to think about something that gives you strength and they try to push you down.

[00:24:24] And then something that gives you a weakness. Kinesiology. Right. Okay. So she did that at the beginning, eh, just with two things. And then she told me, basically, listen, we could do this the entire hour, but it would get tiring. Right? You can’t just sit there for an hour and I have a conversation. I constantly push your arm down.

[00:24:43] So what I’m able to do is I able to transform whatever your energy, put it in my fingers. And then she would do some kind of tapping as she was talking and figuring things out. Basically through the tapping, figuring out where the truth is or not. Right. It’s a very poor summary of what you told me, but this is kind of my way that I can explain it in layman’s terms.

[00:25:04] The interesting thing, though, when she told me think about something that gives you a strength, I thought of my children, you know, very obvious, very obvious thing to do for a parent. And then when she told me to think about something that gives you a weakness, I thought of Diana. All right. Which is also interesting.

[00:25:21] It’s like, that’s probably a source of my something that I generate weakness for me. And it’s not, it has nothing to do with her. Like it’s not her doing this to me, it’s me doing it itself. Right. So that was just an interesting little thing, uh, that stayed with me. And then, so, so what she did was what was interesting was she took this book that was full of, um, there was an N.

[00:25:44] Encyclopedia of these, um, these high Paktika medicines, uh, globally, what are they called? Like, um, homeopathic. Yeah. Globally. Yeah. Yeah. So, so yeah, this book and that has all the homeopathic medicines in that. Right. All the time. There’s like a million different names with all these different things in there.

[00:26:08] Right. And she basically was like, every of these, these medicines also points to like a, an emotional or spiritual trauma that has caused the thing. Right. And so what I’ll do is I will. Through the tapping I’ll find the letter and the thing and the thing too. And then we’ll put, pick up the book and the page where the medicine in there and we’ll read and see that is the kind of the spiritual, emotional cause trauma costs for how you feel.

[00:26:39] Right. So, so she did her, her voodoo, and then she picks up my page and. Again, it actually does. You know, it doesn’t matter how she arrived at that page, but what that paid said is pretty spot on. Right. I mean, we, at least he feels pretty spot on. The only problem though is I don’t need, I don’t have it in English, it’s German, but I’ll say it in German and then I’ll try to translate it in English.

[00:27:05] So first in German said villain

[00:27:12] Mm. Yeah. So like, Uh, having lost your will through Chronicle disciplining of your emotions. Right? And so there is like a longer little, little paragraph that basically says that this person has disciplined and suppress their emotions over a long period of time to appear to the outside world, as well as to themselves.

[00:27:45] To be living a worthwhile and expectation meeting public image. Internal safety has been lost through this, uh, feels exposed, feels, um, lesson abandoned. There’s a missing, there’s missing connection to father, to father energy, either real or as an or as imagined. Right. So in my case, my father died obviously, um, does not possess willpower in thought and actions.

[00:28:30] Right. But the, the interesting part is this like Chronicle. Disciplining of emotions, right. That’s sort of like, that felt very true to me and everybody else I’ve told this to and I interpret your reaction is like, yup. That makes sense. That sounds about right. And, um, we did the same thing. Uh, she did the same thing about, she kind of try to feel in.

[00:29:03] Where is this coming from? Is it from the mother or from the father? Right. And then it was like, it’s from the mother. And then she did the same thing and to try to figure out what my mom’s thing is, like pick the page of the book basically. And that page as well, to me, it feels very spot on. Right? So in German it said taught them light.

[00:29:29] Yeah. I don’t even know how to say this in English. Like ladies, like suffering, like hottest standing up to her own suffering or like, um, is stubborn towards her own suffering, something along those lines and fighting. Yeah. And it basically says something that there, there was something traumatic that happened to this person.

[00:29:55] There’s a, a painful situation and this person is not willing to accept that or to change their life situation. So, uh, uses stubbornness to endure and stand up to this pain, you know? And so in my mom’s case, we talked about. The sudden death of my father and you know, how she dealt with it, uh, how strong she was and how stoic and how she was always just functioning.

[00:30:29] But she didn’t show weakness. It’s always, I’m fine. It’s okay. Always I’m fine. Like always like 10:00 PM at night, still fucking working and doing all kinds of shit. How are you, mom? I’m fine. I’m fine. It’s always been fine. Right? So that felt right. And then we went to like my grandfather and my grand grand grandfather, which I don’t even know.

[00:30:55] I didn’t, my mom didn’t know anything about him because her whole thing was like that there’s some ancestry beginning of this type of suffering. And it’s like given from generation to generation, who did I inherit this from? It was the grandfather of my grandfather, basically. Right. And so that’s obviously what, what she found on that page is obviously I cannot say any, like, I can speak to that as right or wrong or good or bad or true or natural.

[00:31:25] I have like, no sense for that whatsoever. Um, but it was interesting because for him, the thing that came up was like a basically blocked his creative life, energy enforced because of a sexual shock. And so talk a little bit about this in the descriptions, like as a child, something happened, either being seen or, you know, surprised while being some kind of a sexual activity and then carrying immense shame, uh, with you that kind of blocked all chances for joy and for creativity and for, for living life freely.

[00:32:05] Okay. I mean, fucking my grandfather’s grandfather, that’s like, I dunno, it’s the twenties. That’s the 10th. I mean, wouldn’t be not surprising to me. This sexual shock happened to lots of people, but, um, that was just, I mean, that’s just interesting, but I, I don’t really know what to do with that for now, at least.

[00:32:24] Um, and we, we talked a lot and there were some, some interesting things that came up that were again, like, um, It’s very true. Like she asked me, do you feel at home somewhere? And I said, no. And then she said, you never felt at home anywhere. Right. And I was like, yes, that’s true. And that is true. It’s something I’m known, but I’ve now been thinking more about that even since a child, I don’t remember ever, ever feeling at home anywhere, like not at home in the cities that I live and not at home in the.

[00:33:01] Houses apartments. The places that I lived, it was always, it always felt temporary and never put any care because I always thought I, I going to leave here. This is not where I want to be. Um, and then it was basically saying, you know, because I’ve never as a child, I didn’t learn to trust my feelings and to feel my feelings fully.

[00:33:24] I can never arrive within myself so I can never arrive anywhere else either. Um, talked about, uh, loneliness. This is another interesting thing where, where I had to think about it more. And it’s another feeling that I think I felt my entire life, especially also in the relationships I’ve been in. I always maintained the feeling of loneliness, even when I was with somebody like an intimate partner.

[00:33:53] The only time I remember. Not feeling lonely or feeling less than usually my life was the  days was that like short period of time where I was living with my friends, with you and others, and we’re living research, um, cohesive unit, we’re sharing our lives so openly with each other to some degree. And so intimately there was a time where I didn’t feel.

[00:34:23] As lonely, like, I felt very connected to all of you. Um, but before, after that from the, my entire life, I definitely have always maintained like that note, that vibration of that, there’s some level of loneliness. Yeah. It’s always been there, which is again, and it’s one of those things are not surprising to me.

[00:34:47] Not something I’ve never thought about or never felt, but. Never said it that clearly never thought it that fully, you know, never thought that thought to the end where it was like, that is quite a significant thing to say, this is not a little thing to be like, Hey, 38 years of my life, there’s been, you know, almost no times where it didn’t feel lonely.

[00:35:14] It doesn’t matter if it was. With, uh, my wife and my children doesn’t matter if it was with friends as men, if it was with coworkers, doesn’t matter with family, there’s always like a degree of loneliness of separation between me and others that I felt. Um, so we’d like a, a long, intense conversation with her.

[00:35:37] And then at the end, she basically was like, you know, try to, let’s try to find a vision statement for your life that addresses this issue, where you say, this is how I want to live. Right. You find a way to express it that makes you excited or that you are fully activated. When you think about that, it could be like, uh, you know, choose to live life with all my emotions.

[00:36:01] So I choose to live my life free. And with. Um, you know, with my truth or whatever, like find a way to express it in a way that makes you excited. And then she was like, you know, let’s take a couple of weeks, let this kind of let this swing. And then you’re also, your ancestors need to be activated and come to the table, basically.

[00:36:29] And then in a couple of weeks, we’ll sit down and based on everything we’ve discussed, we’re going to do a, how do you say familiar enough English? Um,

[00:36:42] I don’t know. Um, family constellation. I don’t know if this is. Systematic family consolation. This is like a therapeutic thing that they do, um, where either objects, other people are taking on the role of different family members and then you play and discuss and work through certain issues. Um, I’ve heard of it many, many times.

[00:37:02] I’ve never seen it, never done it before. Um, but I’ve heard people telling me that, uh, lefty did this recently for instance, but other people’s well, that it’s a powerful experience. And so she was like, next time you’ll come, we’ll sit down. We’ll use some figures and we’ll do a family constellation session and we’ll try to release this, whatever you’re occurring with you.

[00:37:25] And free you for kind of the vision that you want in your life. And then she was like, listen, I don’t like to do too many sessions with people. Usually just these two sessions. And afterwards, if you have a questions, you can always text me or write me or call me, but that’s, that’s the work I like to do with people.

[00:37:38] And that’s that I that’s what we’re going to do. One more session a couple of weeks and then that’s that. Oh, all right, cool. So that was it. Um, and. I don’t know, like I was definitely super spent after it. You know, that feeling when you would do like, um, I don’t know, it’d be like the sixth day at a Christmas seminar in Berlin.

[00:38:06] And towards the end of the day, you’re just like, you’re just done. He was just like emotionally spent. Like, I felt very much emotionally spent that day. That was kind of such an intense, weird day for me. Um, And then yesterday I had written to Diana and I was like, you know what, tomorrow, maybe we can find some time, let’s go on a walk.

[00:38:25] I want to talk to you about some things. And I had the chance to talk to her about like that realization that I’m afraid to be fully happy. Cause I think it will create conflict. And I know it’s not about her. Like I carry that in myself, but I just wanted to share it. And when like, uh, we had a really meaningful and good conversation yesterday that felt, that felt important.

[00:38:42] Um, so yeah, that’s. That’s the that’s my Thursday

[00:38:53] interests. You know what, um,

[00:38:59] Hmm. I say like, so when you said that the whole first class, it was the one time where you, where you felt like connected and part of a tribe. Uh, one thing that came to my mind is like, At the time you,

[00:39:24] you kept something from every single one of us, right. Where it’s like, um, um, like, yeah, we got all these people and it’s going to be awesome. But for you internally, you didn’t feel that was accurate or that was the truth, right? Have you represented for, you know, for good reasons, but you still represented it as something that was different.

[00:39:48] So I thought that was interesting that yeah, in this time there was this thing, I, I a, a, a felt that when I was telling you it, I felt that that probably came up for you. And now, as I’m thinking about it, I mean, I don’t know. Right. My memory is also not perfect. Um, but. I think that at the time I from, I wasn’t, I wasn’t aware, or I wasn’t thinking I am lying to these people.

[00:40:23] Yeah. Or I’m keeping a secret from them. I wasn’t reality distortion for most of the time, like there was an internal voice that was like, ah, I’m not sure this is going to work. And then there was the other words that was like, just believe in everything, everything is everything just pretend, and it will happen just right.

[00:40:43] And then I was just going with that script basically. And. I mean, there were a million things during that time that I didn’t share with all of you, just motion, stuff like that, like that, but at that, but that, I didn’t know, I wasn’t, but I think it was more the difference the, before the progress, because I did open up a lot during that time for my before and after jokes.

[00:41:14] Um, The things I would share there. I wouldn’t have shared a year before with Pete. I would have been much more close with all of you the way we lived life, the way I also exposed, not just my strengths, like even, even in a funny or not funny, but in a weird way, that was the time that I started to get really drunk.

[00:41:36] Right. And this is I’m like, what am I 22 years old at that point? And you want 22. Before then four years, every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. Sometimes I would go out with my friends and drink, but I would never get drunk. I would never get drunk. I never lost control during that time. I completely lost control multiple times.

[00:42:04] And. In some way that felt freeing to me, there was to me showing a weakness in front of you guys and being okay with it because you’re my friends. It’s okay. If I fuck up. It’s okay. If I, you know, puke it’s okay. If I am a mess because I’m with friends, like, like I it’s. So, and even like the way we’re talking about the world, though, the things I was experimented with, it was a, even like the physical contact.

[00:42:32] Like I remember during that time, Just hugging my friends a lot more, or even being in bed and like almost cuddling with another friend, right. To me that was mind blowing that I could be that intimate with other men and not in a sexual way, just in a, like, I love you. You’re like a brother to me and be so kind to each other and be comfortable.

[00:42:57] Not feeling weird, not feeling like this is awkward. Just like just being really loving and really like a very close community. That’s how I remember feeling during that time. Just like opening up a lot, feeling much more connected. Now, if you compare me today with me, then. There’s probably a million little insecurities I suppressed or pushed away.

[00:43:18] It didn’t show, but I didn’t know that. I think I wasn’t aware of that. What I was feeling internally and experiencing internally was this, wow, I’m opening up so much. I’m much more honest. I’m much more close to these people than I’ve ever been before. So that’s why I feel like that was, uh, and I don’t remember.

[00:43:37] Maybe I also still felt a I’m sure there are still many moments. I felt like the leader of the pack. Right. Yeah. Where I felt carrying more responsibility than all of you or having to push you or having you expecting you’re all expecting things of me and feeling like a pressure that nobody else has in that group.

[00:43:59] Right. So I can imagine that even then, I still feel still felt a little lonely, but when I think back to that time, what I remember what stood out to me was. Wow. I really felt connected. I felt more connected during that time with these people and with my friends, then I remember feeling connected with people afterwards.

[00:44:24] So beforehand,

[00:44:28] yeah. That what you said where the kind of progress or the Delta thing there was I, yeah, for me also, I think that was one of the things that made it really special. So, um, This was very significant there. Um, um, I’m also curious about, like you said, okay, so you shared a couple of things where you felt like, wow, this was really spot on, like the

[00:44:54] too.

[00:44:58] yeah. Julia is the sound to it, but what do you also mentioned has some that, that you felt like were totally off the Mark? Are there, like, what are the kind of three that. But do you remember what you felt like? Yeah know. Well, the, the thing that she, so I had mentioned to her a bunch of things about myself and I brought, I brought up my mother.

[00:45:20] Right. Um, so, so, you know, it’s not like she, like, when she was like, what is it? The father, the mother it’s the mother that could be just feeling the energy. But I also brought that energy. Into the room. Like I wasn’t like my father is an issue. Like I need the death of my father, I think is what I was like.

[00:45:42] I think my mom was always suppressing her emotions and I feel like I’ve learned that from her, the pages that she popped up from me and my mom feel like a thousand percent. Right. When she then went to my grandfather. So my, my, my grandfather, my mother’s father, the patient, since you brought up for him and him, I know very well.

[00:46:08] I knew very well doesn’t mean that I know him perfectly and it could very well be that, which set, what is set on that page was true. And I just didn’t know it or can’t connect it, but that felt much less true, like much harder to. See how that was him or his issue. Um, and then there the grand grand grandfather, I mean, who the fuck knows that that’s so far away.

[00:46:35] I know nothing about it. It could be like, I’m reading a page about somebody in, you know, somebody in the world right now. Like I just don’t know. Um, but your, your grandfather, um, yeah, so, Oh, go ahead. And all you told me about them that like, if S C H, T he changed straight in character. But I remember like the one encounter I remember with him where I met him.

[00:47:04] I remember we just greeting each other, like in the, in the kind of way. And then I remember when I walked away from it, it wasn’t like. This man doesn’t think very ideal,

[00:47:18] a lifetime of experience and just like one glance. No. Is my nephew doing with this or that? That was probably spot on. I would not be surprised. Right. Um, so, uh, so yeah, with them, it was like unpunished in like. I don’t even know how to say planet English. I mean, yeah. It’s like his being different made him feel kind of excluded and mistreated and miss respected or, and he felt shamed and weak and you know, he basically.

[00:48:07] You know, to get support and to get the help he changed his personality to, you know, take other people’s life in thought and thought process. And if my grandfather was like, well, so the being different, like in the village that my grandfather grew up, he was the most different cat for sure, because they were all such simple people.

[00:48:33] That didn’t read, didn’t know anything about the world. Didn’t care. Didn’t dress up nicely didn’t wanna accomplish anything. They were just like farmers. It was just like farm, drink, wine eat, go to sleep. Just like they have very, very, very simple life. And my grandfather was a way more ambitious and a person that traveled the world and a person that moved to Germany and a person that started different endeavors and open restaurants and a person that.

[00:49:01] Was dressing nice in reading constantly. It was interested in the world and was a, a big ladies man. And, uh, love her dancing and food. Like he was very different. Sure. But not like this, the way this is described, describes a man that felt so insecure about his being different, that he like pretended to be like others to be accepted.

[00:49:26] That is not true. That all, but again, it’s like maybe he felt this internally, but he lived it in some weird way that I can’t recognize. Sure yet that that is true. Right. I, it could be that all of the things he was doing was to get love and accept. I mean, I’m sure a bunch of his extroverted personality was to get attention and love and whatever, but I don’t know.

[00:49:51] It’s just, this is not as spot on to me or I can’t say I have to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make this work. Right. And of course it could say he was a timid little. Bitch that never tried anything. And then it’s like, well, he, although he externally was totally different, this is how he felt in Germany.

[00:50:10] Could it not be, it could. Right. Um, so you could take anything on any page. And I could tell you, you are having this, although you don’t realize it and you don’t live it. And then the argument is over, right? You’re like, how can you argue that? Um, but from my grandfather, this is like, uh, maybe, but I have a difficult time seeing this.

[00:50:30] Like, this is not like with me. And my mom is like a thousand percent. This is it. And with my grandfather was like, no, not really. I’m not sure, maybe. Um, and then there were other things like she, she went through like my life years in, like where I had significant trauma and I’d already use older that, you know, my father died when I was six.

[00:50:51] So the first thing that pops up the sixth, right, sure. Fair. Cool. Now, if she had known that, like maybe, but I didn’t go there to test her. You know what I mean? Like I didn’t go there. To not tell her things to see if, you know, because I didn’t want to, I don’t care if it’s true or not. I don’t, I’m not there to prove that she’s right or wrong.

[00:51:10] I was there to get help. And so I just talked to her and if she used that information to help me, then also, I don’t, I don’t need her to mind read these things, but, okay. So the first thing she said was six fair, but then she was like 13, 16, 25, 34. And. Those years, um,

[00:51:38] was it even 34? Was it 38? I don’t know. With those years I had a difficult time figuring out what it was 13. So something significant that happened there. Thought about it. Uh, you know, it’s probably the time I went to, gosh, did something traumatic happen? I don’t remember some, like, I hated school, but every fucking year of my life, but nothing the really big, 16, another age where I’m like 16, not aware that anything like 16 in my recollection is always a good year because it’s the year I started reading books and I realized entrepreneurship and business and shit like that was that year.

[00:52:20] I don’t remember. And even like, whatever it was, I don’t know. Remember it was 34 if it was 30. No, it was 34, four years ago. Um, I thought about that year, I couldn’t think of anything traumatic happening that year. So it could be that she’s right with all of these years. And I just don’t remember, but, um, but it’s.

[00:52:49] Tough that, I mean, there’s one or two traumatic things I could imagine, but those are not the things that you said right. The years that you said, so this is the type of thing where I’m like, okay, again could be that every, this of these years I had a traumatic experience and I’ve suppressed it. Or if I don’t just remember it, I’m not saying it didn’t happen in those years, but yeah.

[00:53:10] It’s funny that other than the sixth year, every single year, I thought about it. And I was like, ah, I don’t know. I can’t think of anything that particular year that happened. That was significant. Um, and then there’s little moments. Like when we talk about my, my divorce with my separation, I started talking about it and I was like, you know, although the separation was, and then she was like, really.

[00:53:37] She said something along the line, they were really negative or really bad or traumatic or whatever. And it was like the, actually the word that I wanted to say was like really kind. And, and so it was like, no, I mean, the separation was actually a really, really kind okay. Of course everything leading up to making the decision was very difficult for me, but the separation was like the most beautiful, nice kind separation ever.

[00:54:07] So those are the moments where, you know, again, she’s a human, I don’t like, but her instinct was not always. Yeah. But again, depends on how I want to think about this again, if I’m like, it was traumatic years before me fighting it internally to make a decision where traumatic just the separation. Yeah.

[00:54:25] Right. So you, you, I feel like I could twist and turn these things to make them either everything was perfect that you said, and right. Or. Everything was bullshit. And the only good thing she said I already had given her, but again, I don’t care. It sounds like you’re kind of like throwing out in that, pulling it back up and seeing like, Oh, what’s something useful, you know?

[00:54:50] Yeah. I’m like, to me, you know, what the most important criteria is, is when I sat down with her, if I felt like I don’t like her, or she’s not honest. I would have, then I would have been closed. And if I’d been closed, this would be, have not been a helpful experience to me, no matter what she would have told me, I think, but since I was like, I believe this person believes what she says and does, and I like this person and I feel this way person has something to offer as a big heart has some wisdom let’s talk.

[00:55:31] And if she has to tap. And talk to the spirits. That’s cool with me. Like I’m here, I’m open. Let’s see if this can help. Let’s see what I can learn. And I’m not, I’m not necessarily saying the tapping worked that didn’t work could work perfectly, could not work at all and be all. I mentioned it at the end of the day.

[00:55:51] I’m not interested in trying to find the truth in that I’m just interested in trying to find help for myself. Right. And I’m like, was this a conversation when I walked out and I said, wow. She said something that I never thought about and that I would have never realized. And it was completely surprising.

[00:56:10] No. I actually didn’t say something that I was like, wow, I’ve never ever thought that. And I could have never figured that out. No, she didn’t. But did she say things that were meaningful to me? Did she bring up things and highlight them? And we talked about them with now that I think about them slightly more clearly or slightly different, did the entire conversation.

[00:56:33] Feel meaningful to me. Yes, it did. It did feel good. It feels meaningful. It was a session. I was like, yeah, I’m taking things with me from this conversation. I’ll be thinking about them working through them. So net net, to me, this was a really positive experience. 

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